Posts by King Solomon

82

The reason for my delay......

by EndofMysteries in

for those waiting and wondering what my situation is right now.

here is an illustration i think kind of explains it well.

feel free to chime in what you think would be the right thing to do.

King Solomon

Jeezus EE, will you give it a break already with all of your non-stop Thor Freak preaching?! OK, we get it, so enough already!! SHEEZE!

58

How many of you have lost your faith on JWN

by Most Noble in

jw
friends

just curious, if anyone had lost faith whilst on jwn and do u think it is an honorable experience?..

King Solomon

Sizemik said:

"I know a reasonable number of ex-JW's and have never heard this reasoning . . . ever. The great majority have simply stood back and performed a more subjective evaluation of religion(s)."

Yeah, good pick-up on an oft-repeated claim that isn't true: in my case, I doubted God's existence while in JWs, and never got a satisfactory answer from them or anyone else. It was the same old theodicy question: where did evil come from? Even after 40 yrs of asking, I've never heard a compelling answer (and have found plenty of other answers to realize its a pointless question to ask, like pondering angels sitting on heads of pins).

And if you think of it, how many issues are exclusive to JWs such that they would lead to a loss of faith? Would someone leave the JWs voluntarily over say, blood transfusion (and I mean BEFORE faced with the issue, not after)? Maybe there's some examples, but I cannot see someone leaving the JWs over say, Xmas, or saluting the flag, etc when they knew the policies BEFORE they joined. And those JW-exclusive ideas aside, you're dealing with fundamental issues not addressed by any Bible-based religion.

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Atheists are used to having the English language stacked against us, defining us by what we are NOT (NOT a theist); 'losing ones faith' is simply another manifestation of that phenomena, when the reality is we are gaining rationality and independent thought.

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CA said:

"But I'm learning that by saying that, I am no better than the atheist saying that I am delusional. Maybe what it comes down to is that we are ALL delusional and what we think we know...we don't."

Soooo, if a psychiatrist diagnoses someone with schizophrenia, is the doctor no better, and also schizophrenic?

He that thinks he knows something, doesn't not yet know anything. (1Cor 8:2)"

That's a good example of the Bible trying to appear to be wise by using paradoxes (a favorite technique of Jesus AND Yods), when if you think about it, it's just being stoopid (sic): the person at least thinks they know, and THAT'S something.

58

How many of you have lost your faith on JWN

by Most Noble in

jw
friends

just curious, if anyone had lost faith whilst on jwn and do u think it is an honorable experience?..

King Solomon

Losing your faith in what was and is a lie is not an excuse to lose faith in what is real, you know....

82

The reason for my delay......

by EndofMysteries in

for those waiting and wondering what my situation is right now.

here is an illustration i think kind of explains it well.

feel free to chime in what you think would be the right thing to do.

King Solomon

Stick with the first door you pick, and don't let Monty Hall (who was a member of the Illiterati) talk you out of it!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monty_Hall_problem

233

THE GOOD NEWS WILL BE POSTED LATER TODAY!!!!!

by EndofMysteries in

a video will be posted later today where all the mysteries of god, the disgusting thing causing desolation, all the contradictions in the bible, why god in the old testament seemed so cruel, why was satan created if god is good, how is god love?

all of the prophecies jesus had foretold which were hidden and lost yet being fullfilled the entire time.

this is the good news that will then spread worldwide, and then the end will come.

King Solomon

Mrs Cunningham said:

Sounds like the makings of a game show. Let's Make a Deal anyone?

Stick with the first door you picked!

(Monty Hall Paradox)

82

The reason for my delay......

by EndofMysteries in

for those waiting and wondering what my situation is right now.

here is an illustration i think kind of explains it well.

feel free to chime in what you think would be the right thing to do.

King Solomon

Meh, I'm not reading the novel, but waiting for the movie version....

49

How can one have faith and have no clue and understanding what is written in the Bible?

by jam in

my sister (not a jw) have a strong faith, so she ask me.

what,s my problem, you and your wife needs to attend.

some church, you need jesus in your lives.. well i explain to her why we do not attend any religious.

King Solomon

Hi Tammy,

Faith is knowing. That is what that verse states. It is not mere belief, or hope, or wishful thinking. It is knowing, and not doubting. That is faith. That is what this verse states.

The author of Hebrews goes on to continue to mention people like Noah, and Abraham, etc. Because they had faith in what God told them; they had faith in God; they trusted Him; they KNEW and did not doubt.

Hmmm, I'm not sure about what definitions of the words 'belief' and 'knowlege' you are using.

I think of knowledge as a sub-category of belief; people may honestly believe in fairies, despite being unable to PROVE their existence. Knowledge is based on "knowns", the known, the knowable, that which can be proven.

Here's an explanation that works for me:

http://askville.amazon.com/difference-belief-knowledge/AnswerViewer.do?requestId=2572218

Ultimately, everything that we "know" is a matter of perception. We could be just brains-in-vats, and everything we "know" is just an illusion.

So there’s no clear line between knowledge and belief, but in general the line is a difference in repeatability. I "know" that my cell phone is in my pocket because I can go check it. Every time I repeat the experiment, my cell phone is there. And I "know" that there is a city called Toronto in Canada, because I can go check it. I don’t actually have to go there and prove it, because I know that I could. Other people report that they’ve done the experiment, and that’ll be good enough for now. So I call it "knowledge", and I’ll revise what I know if I start hearing reports that Toronto is actually a kind of citrus fruit. The ironic point is that the experiment could fail. The possibility of failure is critical. If I could said, "Well, I put my hand in my pocket and my cell phone isn’t there, but I’ll say that it is anyway," then my experiment wouldn’t really prove much. We’d just say, "My cell phone is there, whether it really is or not", and that’s not terribly useful.

By contrast, "belief" is for stuff which we can’t demonstrate. I believe that we will some day cure cancer, even though I can’t do an experiment to show it. I could wait a hundred years, but if it hadn’t been found, it might just need another hundred years. So that’s the difference: knowledge is belief you can test. And by "test", I mean the possibility of proving that it isn’t true. If you believe it and no evidence could convince you otherwise, then the belief isn’t particularly useful. You might well act on it, but you cannot be sure that it’s true. There are some beliefs that people choose to believe that absolutely cannot be refuted. We can call these "faith". (We also have "faith" that the sun will rise tomorrow, but that's a less interesting sense of the word.) There is no inherent problem with faith; since it can't be tested it can't be proven wrong. Many people find that it helps them get through their day. The only problem comes when my immovable faith meets your unstoppable belief. Then people get hurt. But until then we all get along pretty well despite (and, often, because of) our faiths.

So to get back to the topic of faith: faith, in my eyes, is based on a belief; we're back to a circular definition. And since 'hope' is also a belief (you don't KNOW that what you HOPE for will actually come to fruition; you cannot demonstrate that it WILL come true), then faith IS based on hope.

I suspect you are TRYING to convert beliefs into knowledge by assuming that the difference is the existence of DOUBTS in beliefs, and a LACK of DOUBTS for knowledge. That's a flawed logic, because you cannot make up for the lack of repeatability and demonstrability of beliefs simple by eliminating DOUBTS. While Jesus was able to convert water into wine, you'd need God's miracles to convert beliefs into knowledge (and THAT'S exactly what people like me are ASKING for: tangible concrete PROOF on which to base our faith, so it is NOT "blind faith").

21

Could the New Light About the Faithful&Discrete Slave Open the Governing Body to more Lawsuits?

by frankiespeakin in

can a skillful lawyer use this information in court as evidence of lack of fullfillment of fuduciary duty on thier part since they claim to be the only true religion and obedience is a life and death matter.. just saying could not the governing body just be falling into a trap of thier own making and not even be consciously realizing it?

and maybe consciously and unconsciously thier legal team is pushing them that way conspiracy theorys could take many turns on that one.. how about conspiracies that operate in the collective unconscious level, conspirering against them unconscious to them making themselve thier own worst enemy..

King Solomon

However the WBTS will never be able to avail themselves of that avenue of scapegoat because according to long standing policy, all bodies of elders are required to file a report for all matters of sex abuse- alleged, denied, confirmed or otherwise to the Watchtower. There are specific forms used currently by BOE to forward this information. How could the WBTS ever claim they were not alerted by localized BOEs?

I'm not aware of what forms they use, but "never" is a questionable claim to make. Updating policies and forms is trivial (unless the legal dept are compleat (sic) eediots (sic)).

I suspect some are under-estimating the legal challenge a plaintiff faces in order to prove gross negligence, where allegations do not constitute abuse, and even a confirmed case of abuse doesn't prove "predator" (eg the circumstances may have been more akin to statuatory rape, as defined in some states; hence the "abuser" is not likely to reoffend if the two parties were engaged, say 17 and 19).

So, the WTS' awareness of allegations or even abuse (as statuatory rape) doesn't mean they are dealing with predators. The Condi case involved gross negligence such that it was relatively easier to prove.

Much like everything else in life, the REAL implications of the situation is incredibly more complex and nuanced than it's given credit for being, such that it's foolish to try and reduce it to down to simplistic absolutes...

Sir 82 said:

If that person then goes on to molest someone, wouldn't the WTS be at least partially responsible? Their policy is to let people know who the bad guys are; this guy did something bad but I wasn't notified; so sue the WTS.

Flip-side is they ALSO face the concern of being sued for defamation of character by the accused (wrongly or rightly) if they DO proceed with warning others, so it's a catch-22. Hence why they require elders to call the Legal Dept before labelling someone as a "predator".

That's the price some men play for the ego-boost and prestige of being an "elder" , and is a good reason NOT to be an elder! The sword doesn't just have TWO edges, but at least FOUR!

21

Could the New Light About the Faithful&Discrete Slave Open the Governing Body to more Lawsuits?

by frankiespeakin in

can a skillful lawyer use this information in court as evidence of lack of fullfillment of fuduciary duty on thier part since they claim to be the only true religion and obedience is a life and death matter.. just saying could not the governing body just be falling into a trap of thier own making and not even be consciously realizing it?

and maybe consciously and unconsciously thier legal team is pushing them that way conspiracy theorys could take many turns on that one.. how about conspiracies that operate in the collective unconscious level, conspirering against them unconscious to them making themselve thier own worst enemy..

King Solomon

Frankiespeaken said:

I think a good lawyer would set his sights on the head part of the organization because more money is there as oppossed to elders which they may use to leverage thier cooperation in going after the real money boys.

It doesn't matter how much $$$ is at the top of WTBTS (corporation): a lawyer would STILL need to connect the dots of the WTS being aware of the damage/harm caused by a child molester to them in order for the corporation to be liable, eg IF they didn't respond properly (at least following their own policy).

That's EXACTLY the point of the new policy: it gives WTS an excuse, a plausible legal deniability, IF the local elders don't notify them of a problem. If they didn't notify the WTS, the elders would more likely stand alone.

That's not to say a lawyer cannot TRY to use a novel legal strategy (equivalent to "piercing the corporate veil"), but it's likely harder with such a policy in place, as it's unreasonable to expect the WTS to be mind-readers.

And as JW and Outlaw said above, the courts don't care in the least about JW's theological constructs or it's doctrines, just the legal entity.

(disclaimer: IANAL, but I do have an unnaturally-high interest in the topic of legal matters)

PS I made a video about a few product liability lawyers who sued God as if he were a manufacturer of a defective product: mankind. The premise is based on ignoring that the law doesn't care about theological matters or would allow organized religion to serve as a co-defendent (with Earthly holdings paying for judgments, which IS somewhat true, as the RCC and JWs know):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGQvQv9o-Mg

64

The Governing Body - their own worst enemy!

by cedars in

i've been giving some thought recently to what's going on in the minds of the individual governing body members, and what makes them tick.

the process of listening to their talks for my "getting to know you" youtube video series, though draining, has been very enlightening.

i now feel i know some of their individual personalities a little better than i did previously.. then there has been the tumultuous events of 2012. it's been interesting to note the way the governing body has responded to some of these issues, and how in most cases their responses have been woefully inadequate or even counter-productive as regards their long-term interests.. for example:.

King Solomon

tresdecu said:

I find this absolutely crazy that the Legal Dept. would let the Oct 1st letter leave the ivory tower making them even more liable for the future...I am dumbfounded by it. Unless the Lawyer Bros. are like "ah f$%k it' Let the old bastards screw themselves..." It's just so weird.

Yeah, that's because the WTBTS HASN'T increased their liability; they've actually decreased their risk exposure at the front end by requiring elders to notify them of suspected "predators" (that should be obvious to anyone who knows even the basics of law who gets into the details of the policy).